WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

Do you have a fear of being perceived? Of putting yourself out into the world? Are you ever afraid of what people will think of you if you show up as your full, authentic self? Because same. And despite hosting a podcast and working in a very public industry for much of my life, sometimes it can all just become too much and the safest option feels like blending into the background of life.  But what's the fun in that? Where's the opportunity for growth in playing small?  So here I am.  And here we are.   And I'm so happy to be back in conversation with you again. Now...let's get into it. 

Transcript

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This is Unsided. Unsided. Unsided. Hey everybody, it's Christopher. Welcome back to another episode of Unsided. I took a little break because I needed to focus on a few things in life. And I also, you know, I I had put out seven or eight episodes, and I thought this is a moment to just take a breath and kind of look at what it is that I'm doing. And I realized that a part of me had started to feel pressurized with it because that's what I do with everything in my life. Rather than just allowing it to be a stream of joy, I will turn it into something that has to become something. And that is not what this podcast is about for me. It is a dream. And if you know I could make my living. And let me just put it out there. I intend to make my living using my voice like this, but in this moment it can't be that. In this moment, it has to be joy and exploration and learning how to share more about who I am. And I, in this break, I found myself kind of sliding backwards into the uh-oh, I don't, if I'm going to continue on, I'm going to have to let in more. I'm going to have to let out more, I should say, and let more people in into knowing more about me. And I have felt for some time like I didn't want to be perceived, which might sound surprising because I have social media and I have done this podcast and I work in a somewhat public industry. But it has become harder and harder for me to feel comfortable being perceived because when I was younger, I started acting, I started performing, I started being in front of crowds, large crowds, very young in elementary school, and then junior high for sure in high school and beyond. And I was always driven by the idea, the desire to create, but I was also driven by the desire to be fulfilled by what came back to me in the form of applause or attention or whatever it may be. That collaboration that artists have between the audience and themselves that drove me. And then as I became more and more uh focused on being a father and then focused on taking care of my family and then going through whatever life has unf whatever life has unfolded in front of me, I became less interested and almost afraid of being perceived. And and I say perceived specifically because I hear a lot of conversation around, you know, the fear of being seen, the fear of being perceived. I don't exactly know if that's the right word, but the idea that I would be seen by people who have a negative opinion of me. And they would say on the other end of whatever device they're watching or listening to me on, who does he think he is? And that really came about uh when my divorce started, because there was and has continued to be a tense, unnecessarily tense divorce. And as a process of that growth and that healing through that divorce, I also shrunk into myself. And I thought now I knew there were people. I knew there were now people in the world who, because they knew my ex-wife, because they knew me, because they were family after my ex-wife, whatever it is, there were people there are people in the world who don't like me, actively dislike me. And I'm certain there were people before who actively disliked me. But one of the things I've tried to do my entire life is be like to a fault, unnecessarily so. It's actually something that I've worked actively to stop caring about so much. But this really put it right up in my face because now somebody that I had been in a family with had a certain opinion of me, and then people around them, and I just felt very vulnerable. And the stories that were coming up were just terrible and not true, and it made me feel like I wanted to go into a hole and go into hiding. Now, that is not necessarily what it would look like to the outside world because I continued to do my work and my work, like I said, as somewhat public, and I started doing these things, but I stopped, you know, I stopped giving my full self. Well, the example that comes to my mind is when I was in high school, um, I think it was my sophomore year, we did uh Midsummer Night's Dream. And for a Midsummer Night's Dream, well, I auditioned for the role of Puck, and I got the role of Puck. I split it with another wonderful actor named Susan Neal, and I had to wear a full, I had to wear a Unitard, a full body leotard. And I just, I was in high school in Oklahoma, and here I was flitting about the stage as Puck in a Midsummer Night's Dream and loving every minute of it. And this is again a super conservative place. I I also like I was so bold in high school. I was so myself because I was driven to get out. I was driven to move beyond the confines of Oklahoma as I saw them to be. And so I was bold and I was brave and I would be myself. And as I got into my twenties, I started becoming a little more self-conscious. And it started showing up in my ability to book work, you know, as an actor then for the most part. But but I'm a very driven man, so it didn't ever stop me. It just kind of started, you know, messing with me. And a lot of it had to do with my sexuality. And I wouldn't say it had to do with my own confusion around my sexuality, it had to do with the world's confusion around sexuality in general, and then therefore me trying to figure out how and where I fit in. You know, I came out when I was really young, and then I definitely had a lot of internalized homophobia and I had a lot of things to work on, and that's not what this episode is about, but that was what kind of started me feeling like as I as I started pursuing acting more in film and television, I started becoming very aware that I was going to have to be perceived, like really perceived. And suddenly I cared a lot about what people thought about me, and it always had to do with my sexuality. I think in high school, because I was kind of, I didn't even think about it. I was, you know, like I just was myself. I developed, I think, in always a little later than maybe the average guy. I don't know. But it all just kind of came together for me in my 20s. And so then by the time I met my wife, then I was suddenly back in kind of the box of being straight, even though my wife knew and like the people around me may have been confused, but they knew. And but I kind of went back into this proverbial closet a little bit and kind of, you know, I was doing Jersey Boys at the time, and that's a kind of a rough show. And the character that I was really covering, Tommy, which I was so lucky to go on for many times, including on Broadway, that was kind of a tough guy, and I wanted to be that guy. But in order, you know, the guys who were cast in that role, they were just authentically themselves. I worked with Jeremy Kushner and Devin May and um, you know, Eric Bates, and they're just like dudes, like guys. And so here I am in Jersey Boys, and I'm trying to still, it's my sexuality again. I'm like, how do I fully be myself? And when you're not fully yourself in the public eye, people can tell. It doesn't mean you won't spend time in the public eye, but people can tell. And my career has very much been in the public. It's entertainment. That's what drives me, right? Even as I started to heal and I started to look at these things and I started to figure them out and I started to go within, I'm still very driven to tell stories. It's what I do, it's what I love to do. It's what I, it's really the only thing that I think that we do in this world anyway, that's of any value. We wake up every day and we tell each other stories about what happened at work, about what happened in our personal life, about what we want to do, about what our feelings are, about what's happening in the world. It's just a constant exchange of information. And then I love being a part of things that dramatize that so people can heal through it and see themselves and grow, you know, all of that. So all of that felt really good. But the idea of being perceived was becoming harder and harder and harder, and then cut to the divorce as I was talking about. And by this point, I was squarely out of the public eye in as far as being out front because I've been a producer for 10 years and not acting and not singing and, you know, missing it, but not really missing it, because I love my job and it was a natural evolution. But then the divorce happened, and everything that I thought that I had identified with kind of fell apart. And then I needed to start figuring out who I was outside of that. And I met a man and fell in love and for the first time embraced my sexuality openly in a partnership, you know, the because the last time that I had been in any sort of relationship with a man was in the early 2000s. And while I may have been out, I certainly wasn't, you know, a grown man with children. And now, you know, I'm now married to this man. And as I went through this process, it became an uncovering of who I am and what I am and and what I'm growing into. And I realized that there are a lot of things within me that feel like I don't necessarily want to share with the world. And that was new to me. And add that to the idea of being divorced and now having people who actively think that I made a bad decision or did something wrong and they don't like me, and particularly people who used to care about me. And I become even more concerned about being perceived. Now, it's interesting because I'm not one who lets things keep me down, right? I realize these things about myself and then I work to move through them so I can understand so so I can teach my children. I have one child who's not very interested in being perceived as well, and another one who's very out front. And I would say that I kind of live equally between those two places. And the thing that I would want my children to know is that, first of all, it's absolutely your choice to what level you want to be perceived in the world, what you want to do, how you want to put yourself out there. But also there are some limiting thoughts and beliefs that come from being afraid to put yourself out there that I really do think cut us off from the experience of life, from the experience of sharing those memories and creating those stories. And I saw that was starting to happen to me, which is another reason I started the podcast. So I did the seven or eight episodes and I stopped for a minute because I just had some other things to take care of. And then suddenly I was like, oh, I was on, I had momentum going, and that's what kept me going. But now I'm suddenly kind of nervous to get back in here and do it again. And I've recorded a couple of interviews that are coming up, which I think you're gonna love. But solo episodes, I must have recorded three or four or five, and here I am again recording another one because I don't like anything I recorded, because I'm in the middle of figuring out who I am. And for so long, it felt like I would put on a face or put on, you know, the I don't want to say mask, but mask, and present whatever I needed to present for people because I was people pleasing, because that's how I survived, because I whatever. And it meant that nobody ever got the fully authentic version of Christopher. They got parts of me. And I don't even regret that. I'm just observing it. It's it is how I survived, it's how I thrived, it's how I'm here today. But when I become uncomfortable, when I outgrow something, when something is no longer serving me, I get so uncomfortable internally, and I create discomfort externally until I change it, until it changes. And I know for a fact that ending my marriage long after it should have been ended and finding myself in the life I'm in now was exactly that. It was time for me to change. And I couldn't do it within my marriage. It wasn't working, it wasn't going to work. And this part has nothing to do with my sexuality. It has everything to do with just needing to be. And here I am in the middle of this change, sharing with you as openly as I possibly can and learning to share more what it feels like to finally integrate all the parts of myself. You know, have one place I can come home to. I can come home to my husband, and he's the only person, the only person in my entire life who has been able to successfully accept all the parts of me without it creating conflict. And I'm not saying we don't have things that we work on, but that it's never at the core about who I am or how I show up. And that has allowed me to start to accept and love different parts of myself that I never did before. And, you know, as I was sitting down to record this podcast today, I think a lot about, you know, what this means, even. Why am I putting this out into the ether? And one day my children will listen to this, I'm sure. Maybe not, but they know better than to listen now. I they know I have a podcast, but they're always very respectful. And I tell them this is not for their ears now. But one day they're gonna listen, and I want whatever they hear to be a reflection of the truth of who I am, so that when they're walking through life and they're confused about who they are or how they're showing up or what comes next, they can understand that their father asks the same questions. And that I don't think that there is a right answer and that it is just in the asking of the questions that you know you're on the right path. You know, I want them to hear the questions that I ask. And and the question that I ask now is how do I integrate all the parts of myself and not be afraid of being seen, of being perceived, of being judged? And I think the answer is I I think you just have to deal with it. Because as cliche as it sounds, what other people think about me is not my business anymore. I had made it my business for so many years. And granted, I had to. I mean, I guess I could have chosen another way to move through life, but for me, that created safety. Because if I could be just who the people needed me to be to keep this certain opinion of me, the opinion being like he's a good boy, that's what I wanted. I wanted to be a good boy, I wanted to be the good guy. And again, here after a divorce, decidedly not the good guy in some people's eyes. That was crushing to me. And I don't know why, because again, I know there are other people in life that have thought I was a good guy, and I certainly do not have a problem speaking my mind, and I've definitely done some things for people to be justified in saying they don't like me. But somehow it hit harder recently, and that's after years and years of work. So I I think it's important that you know, Emerson and Zo, my daughters, if you're listening to this when you're 25 or 35 or 45, it is an ongoing journey to find out who we are. And I think who we are is not a fixed point. And I think it's impossible to move through life, impractical, impossible. Every other word that says you cannot move through life and expect that everybody's going to like or love or appreciate who you are or what you do out of fear, out of jealousy, out of anger, justified or not. But you can't let it stop you from showing up. And I feel like I'm saying what I've read in I am saying what I've read in many tens, hundreds of books, seen in thousands of videos. But I think so many people talk about this because it is what dogs a large, a large majority of of people at some point in their lives who wants to go through their life. Well, I was about to say who wants to go through their life not being liked. I think there are some people who want to go through their life not being liked. In fact, I used to wish that I had no conscience so that I could not care if I was liked or not. But unfortunately, I was given an extra dose or two of that. Again, in this moment, I can just imagine somebody who doesn't like me laughing and thinking, oh, really, Christopher? Really, because I think you're an asshole. And you know, now I'm starting to think it's kind of cool to have some people think that I'm an asshole. Not like me. Like I don't want to create it intentionally. But if there are people out there, and I would want my daughters to know this too, if there are people out there who don't like you because you stood up for who you are and what you believe in and what's important to you, as long as you did it with the most kindness and integrity that you could muster, and as long as you always kept your side of the street clean and owned up and became better, as long as you remained in your integrity, then it's a badge of honor to have somebody not like you for that. Because it means you weren't willing to bend to them to keep them more comfortable than yourself. That you didn't put their happiness in front of your happiness. And that's been a big one for me, trying to make sure that I don't put other people's happiness in front of my happiness. And part of not wanting to come back and do the podcast, it's not that I didn't want to, part of hesitating, or part of even hesitating and launching it, or part of taking a break and kind of being coming back to social media and fits and starts, is that I I was so afraid of being disliked that what would happen, and I I did a whole episode on people pleasing, but what would happen is I would hold it in and hold it in and be the nice guy, be the nice boy until I one day just erupt. And what I've learned after this divorce and this huge shift in my life is that I gotta be okay. I gotta want, I gotta expect, I gotta be happy with, I gotta be grateful for the people who don't like me because it means that I stood up for myself. You know, and anybody who doesn't like me, like actively dislikes me for standing up for myself or being who I need to be, that's their problem. It's none of my business. And that's why I'm sitting here again today recording, because I have to just jump back in. Because if I don't, then uh eventually the fear will start to overtake me more, and I'll get back into the place that I was before I started, and I will think, oh, I can't do this because I'm going to upset someone. You know, it's crazy. Despite having performed for so many thousands of people in so many amazing places in the world, sitting here now in my shed recording this podcast is where I feel the very, very most authentic and the most vulnerable. Much more vulnerable sitting here by myself recording than I ever did playing a Broadway stage or the Hollywood Bowl or or singing at NASCAR for a hundred thousand people with the Jersey Boys. Because this is not hiding behind anyone or anything. And you know, again, if if my daughters are listening to this at any point, I would just encourage you to share the wholeness of who you are. And maybe you just do that with one person. Maybe you're just okay being perceived with a small group, that's fine. I just happen to know that my calling is to share in a larger conversation because I feel like that's just where I'm supposed to be. And now that I'm not doing it because I need to prove something, and I'm not hiding behind a character, and I'm just me, it feels great and scary and important for me. I know how many different people who show up in my social media or in podcasts or as authors, how much of a difference they've made in my life, and how much they've inspired me. And if I can come on to a little corner of the podcast world and share and be honest and be open, and encourage somebody else to do the same, then that's enough of a reason for me to sit down and record an episode and keep going. So that's my welcome back. And I'm excited to bring you some new interviews with some friends. They'll be coming up soon. And I encourage you wherever you are to show up as the most authentic version of yourself, even when it's tough. You know, if you need to hermit away for a little while, that's fine, but then get back out there and share your light. Because I do believe that that is the only reason that we're here to tell those stories, to share that information, to share our light, to learn from one another, to piss each other off, to make each other feel connected and seen and heard. And that it's okay. It's okay to stir the pot a little bit. It's okay for people to think that you're ridiculous. And who do you think you are? Because that's literally our job, to show people who we are. To show people who we are so that they can see themselves in us. That's connection. That's what it's all about. And with that, I'm gonna leave you, and I look forward to talking to you again very soon. Bye. Uncided.