JONATHAN BENNETT: AMERICA'S #1 ICED COFFEE GAY

If you find yourself needing a bit of encouragement to forge your own path towards authenticity - no matter what others think of your plan - this is the podcast for you.  From growing up a queer kid in the suburbs of Ohio to leading a national conversation on LGBTQIA2+ awareness and acceptance, Jonathan Bennett has a wealth of wisdom to share with us about the road less travelled, and the rewards that await on the other side of the struggle to become our true selves.  You don't have to be queer to resonate with our conversation - you just have to be human.  And  have a desire to live your most honest life, regardless of the pressures you face to fit in.   Jonathan's story will inspire you to strive for more than just getting by.  And, you might just find the courage to speak your truth out loud, which is always a beautiful thing.  Let's get into it. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hey everybody, it's Christopher. What a treat you are in for today. A few months ago, my friend and colleague Jonathan Bennett sat down with me for a conversation about life. What it means to walk through life as your most authentic self, what it means to come up as a queer kid in the Midwest, and then be seen by millions of people as you come out and into your own authenticity. And there's so many gems in here, so many things that I learned even after knowing him all these years, so many things that I think you will be able to take away for your own life or for somebody that you know. We did it pretty early in the morning, and it sounds like I still had my Invisalign in. I don't know if I did, or I just had a random lisp that day, and there are a few technical issues, but none of that is worth not sharing the conversation because there's so much good stuff. Okay, without further ado, take a moment, sit back, and give yourself the treat of this conversation and enjoy. This is Unsided. Unsided. Hey everybody, welcome back to Unsided. We are with my dear friend, Jonathan Bennett, who's acting like a fool on the other side.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

You can't see the video here, but it's because just hearing you like introduce your podcast is so fun. You're like, hey, welcome back, everyone. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

You don't even know this about me, but Broadway star is what I know you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Go on.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Broadway star from one Broadway star to another. Listen, I I'll I'll go back and I'll and I'll I'll put a little intro here about us and who we are, but but the short end of it is that we started working together a few years ago, and then I instantly fell in love with who you are as a human being. And um, we've had the opportunity to work together, but we've not really had a lot of time to just hang out. Like you and I haven't, we hang out on set. We're not hanging out outside.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah, we don't hang out, yeah, because we like we're always like r whisked off to some uh you know tropical location like Calgary or uh Vancouver, and then we just like we're in the the muck of it, you know. But well, I mean, we did get to go to Bulgaria and that's true, Vienna. I fell in love with you, who you are as a human, the first time we worked together because I'm an iced coffee gay and I really like efficiency and just people that get it and get stuff done. And in our first movie we worked together, being a queer man that you are, I was like, oh, he's already done all the micromanaging that I normally do. So it was a relief not to have to micromanage anyone because Chris would do it for me.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

I've never heard it from that perspective that it's the micromanaging you would normally have to do that you didn't have to do.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

It's true. Because as queers, we have to, we micromanage everything because we had to overcompensate for everything in our life to just achieve the same level of success and normalcy as a lot of straight people. So it's definitely comes from that of like, I can't just be good. I have to be 10 times better and supply 10 times more 10 times more product and quality than a straight person because that's what I've had to do my whole life. When really we probably don't have to be doing that, but it's just like ingrained in us in our brain as queers. Do you think we don't have to be doing that? Because I kind of think we do. Okay, that was me being like hopeful and like, no, no, it's fine, but actually, no. It's I mean, who said it best? Steve Martin, right? Steve Martin, I got the pleasure of working with Steve Martin and Cheaper by the Dozen 2. Um, and I got to spend three and a half months with him in Canada. And his big famous quote, you know, when he talks about acting in the business, is be so good that they can't ignore you. And that's I think the key to this to success. Uh that for me personally, like my key is like when I do something, I'm gonna do it better than anyone and the best that it can possibly be. So that way they can't say no.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

I I remember the very first time that I met you, just backing up a little bit. It was in Vancouver, it was 2022. We, I mean, I knew who you were, obviously. I knew who you were. I I I'm very famous, Christopher. Thank you. You are very famous, very famous. Yes. I was also just beginning my it's not that I was beginning my queer journey, but I I hadn't really lived out loud as a queer person because I was in this relation in this marriage for a long, long time, which is a whole other story. Straight marriage will do that to you, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it will. Even if you don't, even if you've been out before getting married, it'll put you right back in the anyway.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Are you familiar with this closet? Come on in. Yeah, great.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Come back, come back in the closet. So by the time I met you, I was just starting to feel my queer self a little bit and hear this fabulous, queer. But but you know what? Your your energy, that's the thing that I think is so captivating about you. That I don't, if people don't know you, they know what they see. They see you, you know, you on screen are a bundle of energy and light and love, and you're so present. But that is who you are in life as well. My experience of you know, some people are one way on the camera and another way off camera. You are exactly the same human, yes, on and off camera.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Thank you. And yeah, it's because two, I mean, I want to say two things in rebuttal, that's not a rebuttal, but a I want to say two things that one, Jay Leno said it, I think it's Jay Leno, don't quote me, but someone Google this that's listening. I think he said, if you know, because he's you know being a talk show host and like having the great career he had, he said, if you can get paid to be yourself, you'll never not work a day in your life. And it's so true, but I also think you know, like I don't know how well that goes back to I don't know how to not just be me. And I think like like I always quote all the famous people, Dolly Parton says, do you know, be yourself, everyone else is taken. Like it's it's like I remember growing up playing, and we're jumping ahead, but like growing up playing so many straight roles, and you know, I based a career off of it for 15 years, and it was a and it's a great career, but and like it had so many wonderful things doing all that. But then when when I came out publicly and decided to like really just like embrace all of Jonathan, like all the quirky stuff, all the like super gay musical theater boy that's trapped in this body, you know what I mean? Like all the things that I used to run away from. I was like, screw it, like I'm 32 years old, third, I think I was 34 years old. I don't want to be the closeted actor that's not just like living his truth. So I came out and the fear I had of like not working because you're gonna disappoint the fans. Like the fear I had of that couldn't have been more the opposite. It was like I've never worked more, I've never uh been more connected to like the people that follow me and the people that I am lucky enough to have as fans because they see who you are now, and like when they see you, then they can connect with you. If you're just putting on a facade, there's no connection to the audience, whether it be on screen or like in press or in you know interviews and things like that. So they don't connect to you. But like being my quirky, weird, hyperactive, like I am hyper as hell, like I have so much energy, but like that's the thing I used to work run away from. And then when I embraced it, I was like, oh, this is fun, people like it. And so I always joke, like when I do a Hallmark movie or one of these movies, I'm like, they don't cast me wanting me to come on screen and do something else. They cast you to go and just be Jonathan saying the lines because that's what it's like the you know, the Hallmark Network Studio system that we have with this network. It's like, yeah, it's like they just want you to be you saying those words.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Well, I don't you feel like everybody who casts you wants you to be you saying those words?

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Yes. I mean, I just did uh Dr. Odyssey, yeah, and I remember Paris Barclay, who's the director, very famous director. He's gay and he's amazing. And he like the first scene we went to shoot, it was me and Philip Asue from Hamilton. And so we're shooting this scene, and it's like a surgery scene. And before we do the take, Paris walked in and he goes, Now you know, Jonathan, this scene isn't a comedy. And I said, I know. And he goes, So don't make me laugh. And I was like, I'll try not to. We do the first take, we went to pick up the something, and I like like fumbled it and like recovered. And he cracks up. He's like, Jonathan, stop making a comment. I'm like, but it's funny, like, why can't I pick this up and like drop the surgical tool before I hand it to her? And he's like, it doesn't fit. And I was like, okay, fine. So it's but yes, when you say being cast to do that, other than that scene, I was able to bring all the quirkiness to it and like bring some comedy to my scenes, which Dr. Odyssey has sometimes, but I don't think the way I did it. So yeah, it's it's it's uh it's a blessing and curse. I have so much energy. I wake up at like 6 a.m. and I'm just like, my husband can sleep until eight or nine. He loves to like lay in bed and cuddle with the dog. As soon as my eyes open, I'm like, all right, where's my Celsius? I need to be at the gym. I'm ready to go. I have a hundred things to do today. Like, that's just how I'm wired and I can't shut it off. And it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

It is okay. And you know, I wanna, there's so many things I want to talk about here that we really don't get to talk about very often, but I want to tell you a few things too. So when I met you, you know, this idea of being authentic, authentically oneself. I don't, I don't know if because you were in the public eye and you really had to look at this in a different way, it was able to, you were able to go faster with it. But I will tell you that at 50, I am still learning how to entirely be myself because for so long I learned to play a role, especially now you grew up in Ohio, right? Yeah, Toledo. Yeah, I grew up in Oklahoma. Okay, so I don't know what your experience, I'd love to know what your experience was like growing up in Ohio, but mine growing up in Oklahoma was there was no opportunity for me to be authentically myself at all unless I wanted to be entirely ostracized. Um, at least that was my perception. And maybe that would have been wrong, but I think that was the way it was in the 70s and 80s and early 90s. What was it like for you?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

First of all, you don't look a day over 25. So when you say 50, I about throw up because I'm like, Thank you, sweetheart. That's you don't you I don't know who you go to, but good job on them. Um and um so I think for me, I mean, yeah, look, I grew up, I went to to started school in like 1988 in Toledo, Ohio. Needless to say, not a lot of pride parades um in Toledo, Ohio in the 80s and 90s. In fact, I don't think any. Um, and yeah, it was definitely you you learned to mask.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Did you know then? Did you know what your sexuality was? Like, how young were you when you knew?

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah, I remember laying in, I remember laying in bed. I have the specific memory of laying in bed at my house on a street called St. Andrews, and it was that moment where I'm like laying there, because like everyone says, like, you should like Julie. Like me and Julie, this girl, got along really good. I thought she was so cute. And I loved being around her, but all my friends had like girls they had crushes on, because that's like what you talk about. Right. And I would remember like trying to force myself to like Julie. I was like, no, I like her, I like her. And then laying in bed crying at night because I didn't, and I was like, but I don't like her and like like her that way, you know, and so it because you know, at that age, it's like, who do you like? Who do you like? Who do you like? You know, that's but did you have a boy that you liked then? All yeah, I have all my friends. Yeah, right. I mean, you know, it's like all my friends, like, you know, I thought they were all and back then I just thought it was that I thought they were cool, right? And so I wanted to be like them, but looking back now, it's like, oh no, I had little crushes on like a handful of my friends because I thought they were so cool, but really it's just like I thought they were, you know, hot, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Yeah, yeah, I get it. I totally get it.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

You know, I guess that's what I thought they were, and I remember like so I knew, but then like I think everyone around me knew, like my freshman and sophomore year, because I, you know, my freshman sophomore year of high school, I think everyone around me knew because I was first of all, let's just roll this back. I was the only cheerleader that was a boy at a small town high school in Ohio in the 90s. I was the mascot, I was the bulldog because I wanted to be in with the cool kids who were like, you know, the football players and the cheerleaders. And all the cheerleaders were also in the drama club, so they all were like my best friends. And I was the only guy that was allowed to have sleepovers at like Amanda McKinnon's house, or like half the time, like Amanda, Crystal, Brooke, like all the girls that I was like good friends with would come and have sleepovers at my house because we had a bigger basement with like couches and things like that. So, like all the girls would spend the night at my house, and like all their parents were fine with it. And looking back, it's because the parents were like, Well, clearly he's gay, like, of course they can spend the night at his house. Like, we don't have to worry about Jonathan, you know, like teenagers. So they had to have known.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

We don't have to worry about Jonathan, and so and they didn't because I could care less. So it was like all the parents knew, right? And I just was trying to figure it out, you know. But do you did you ever have attraction towards women at all? Zero. Zero. And when I mean zero, I mean like negative. Negative. Like, here's how gay I am. How gay are you, Jonathan? How gay are you? We are so gay that in our house here in Palm Springs, we have we allow, like we go to get art, and a lot of times there's like female-based art, you know, that's in like cool things, like it's a cool girl and like a bikini, because we're it's very pop art here, what we hang up on our walls. Like, you know, there's like a cool girl in a bikini, like there was a girl in a in a flamingo, like an inner tube, like one of those pink flamingo inner tubes, being sucked up into a spaceship in the desert. And it was it's this pop art and it's so cool and weird. And we were like, gosh, I'd love it. I'm like, but I want to make it gay. Like, could we could it be a guy? And we talked to the artist, and he's like, I can do a guy. So, like, we had him change it to a guy because we're like, we're just that gay, we're that gay that like even the art on our walls, I wanted to be, you know, hot guys versus girls in bikinis, even though girls and bikinis are beautiful, but we're just that gay.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

So super gay.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

We're like, yeah, I might get be fun, but like I kind of want a boy. And it's not because we don't like the other art, it's because we had to grow up so much in our life hiding it and not being authentic to ourselves. We had to grow up and we had so many moments and so many houses and so many things where I couldn't hang the poster I wanted on the wall, right? Like I could like growing up as a kid, I couldn't hang a picture of you know Ryan Philippy, you know, shirtless from like the teeny bopper magazines. I couldn't hang those on my walls, you know, because then everyone would know and everyone would be like, What is it? Why would you do that? See, I did. Lucky you, but I put it. Do you remember Entertainment Weekly? Well, it's still around, just so you know. It still exists.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

I don't, oh, it does. I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Chris is the key of like, does this happen still? Yes. He's like, Hey, have you heard of TikTok? Because let me tell you, I'm getting into this. I think it's great. I'm like, it's TikTok, yes, Chris. I have TikTok. Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah, a little behind your own. You hung them on your walls. You hung them on the walls. I hung them on so I well, because if I hung everybody, all of the because they would always have these spreads, you know, especially back in the early 90s when it was just a magazine. I'm sure it's online now. You could just tear them out. So I decorated my walls with boy, girl, boy, girl. So nobody would really now. I was attracted, I was attracted to women, but I think it's uh, I think part of that has to, it's I don't even understand it fully myself yet, but I'm fascinated by people who grew up knowing one thing. Like you knew, so did it cause you stress, or you just didn't even deal with it till you had to deal with it? Like your sexuality, did it bother you?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Yeah, of course. Like that's the thing, because you're not you're not fitting in with everyone else. Like you don't, you you you feel different than the way other people are feeling, and that's when like I would cry myself to sleep at night because I'm like, but I don't like girls, but all my all my guy friends have like girls they like and they want to take to homecoming and blah blah blah. And like, so it was it was very um, it's very stressful because you don't know the answer. And then when you do know the answer and you you're realizing the answer in high school, it becomes like the older you get in high school, like the fear of the answer, which is that you're gay, the fear of that answer is even more terrifying at because at first you're like, I don't get it. Why? So you're scared because you're like, Why am I not fitting in? And then you then it dawns on you, and then that's even scarier than just not knowing. Now it's like, oh, because back then it was like we didn't have, I mean, the kids today, Chris, as I puff a cigarette and say the kids these days, they have RuPaul's drag race, they have the internet, they have Jojo Siwa, they have, they have, they have like when we grew up, we didn't have any of that. Like nothing. Will and grace was just starting. You know, Ryan Murphy hadn't, you know, made everything gay yet. And I do think Ryan Murphy made everything gay. Like, I I don't think if I had seen that, I probably would have felt less scared. And I think that's why I worked so hard at doing I do because we just the only time you were gay is in Birdcage, and that was the only time you saw a loving relationship on screen. And so it was definitely, yeah, it was scary. And I remember I remember the one I remember sitting, I'll tell you exactly where I was. I was in our house in the colony with Crystal Sultis, my best girlfriend, and Brooke Duvall, my other best girlfriend. Crystal had spinal bifida, and she was in a wheelchair, and I was like the gay theater kid. I mean, we were like real life glee, man. Like we were like just like the kids that just are trying to find their way and don't really have a place, we all banded together, and that was like my crew. And I remember on Dawson's Creek, you'd watch it on Thursday nights, I think, and Jack came out on Dawson's Creek. And I remember sitting there watching the episode and crying, and like with my girlfriends, and they're like, Yeah, it's okay, it's okay. Like, and they all knew, and like because I started to like like boys in high school, and they all knew, but like it was still kept a secret. It was like you're in the club that knows, but we keep it a secret, and that club, by the way, doesn't go away when you got to Hollywood. There was still that club where everyone knows, but like when it came to the public, we all knew just to ignore it or keep it a secret. Right. And it wasn't right, it was like when you're when you're a closeted gay person in Hollywood, you can't not know the people that are working with you, you know 12 hours a day, five days a week in movies and TV shows, they all know because you're around them all day. Like they know, but like there was this unsaid rule back then. I remember it was when I was on Veronica Mars, like like Kristen Bell knows I'm gay. Like, we I would go to her house and eat ice cream and watch TV after we'd shoot for the day, and they all know. But then when it came time to like the for the press, you would everyone would just kind of like ignore it or dance around the subject, right? Because that's what everyone knew. I I I equate it to Santa Claus. You don't need to tell people when a kid comes up and talks about Santa Claus, hey, make sure you tell him that Santa Claus is real. They just know to do it. It's the big lie that the entire world is in on, right? And so with that, with It's the same way with like being gay in Hollywood in the early 2000s. Like, you didn't have to tell anyone to keep it a secret, they all just knew.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Yeah, that's so interesting that comparison to Santa Claus. I want to back up for just a second because I want I have some questions about coming out in Hollywood. But you know, when you were watching the scene with Jack coming out, I was working for the writer of that show or the creator of that show. Um, Kevin Williamson.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Yes, sir. And ouch, ouch, sorry, you just dropped that name on my foot. Let me pick it up. Okay, go ahead. Well, I said that just for other people.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

You've Kevin Williamson, you know, the legend. Go on. We'll probably cut that. But it's so interesting because I came out when I was 19 because I hooked up with a guy. I went on a date with it was a double date, the girls fell asleep, and the guy and I hooked up together. And we kept it secret for a bit, but then I decided, you know what, and and I don't know if this was how it was for you, but I was not inherently ashamed of my sexuality. It was when I started sharing with people and I got the reactions that I got that I started building shame around it. I was afraid to tell, perhaps, but I wasn't ashamed because it's just like breathing, right? It wasn't a thing. And it was only when I started telling people, and so when I'm at when I was at school and I decided to tell people, then it instantly became, oh, Christopher's gay. So for you were looking to come out, and I was looking to come out, but also be like, wait a minute, I have somewhere else on the spectrum that I fit, and I don't know what the hell that is. So that was my battle. Your battle was doing it in a very, very public way, right? So everybody has an opinion, right? Tell me about that. Exactly. It's definitely doing it in a public way.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Everyone has an opinion.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

How old were you when you first realized that you were gonna have to keep that part of your life a secret?

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Okay, yeah, I can tell you exactly where it was. I was shooting a show called All My Children. I had so I I went to college for one year and then started the second year in Ohio at Otterbein, which is a very uh hoity hoity toity, artsy fartsy like art school. And I was majoring in acting, and then after my after my second year had started, I remember laying on the floor being like, pretend that you're a tree and root yourself into the ground and and grow roots and now drink a cup of tea that doesn't exist while you're a tree. I'm like, what the what in the Samhell is this? Like, you I'm paying$50,000 a year to lay on the ground and pretend I'm a tree. I'm like, I am a beautiful little twink right now, and I have lips for days, and I have so much collagen in my face naturally at this point, and I was so pretty, and I was like, I need to hit while the iron's hot. Like, I can't waste my time here. So my parents let me quit college and move to New York City and go for it because I had a modeling agent that wanted me to move there. Good parents, by the way. Yeah, great. And my mom actually drove me to New York in the middle, like through the night, so there was no traffic, and dropped me off in Rawway, New Jersey, right by the prison at the model house that I lived in. And I had food and shelter for$500 a month.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Wait, wait, wait, wait, back up for a second. So you went to a house like a like a reality show house to live with I mean, I know it wasn't reality TV.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

So the agencies, like all the big agencies, um all the big agencies had like either apartments, but this guy lived in Rawway, New Jersey, so he had a house. And if you want to like come there and get sent on auditions, you can they can invite you to come and like live there. And so you share a room with a guy. There's like six bedrooms that the guys had in this like big old house, and I lived in the attic, and I had one roommate, Greg Greg cut something, and he was my roommate, and you share a room and it's 500 bucks a month, and you have um all your food, the fridges stock, so you can make all the food you want, and that's like the thing. So I had I lived with like 11 other guys that were all like either Chippendales or Abercrombie and Fitch models. Like, I mean, it was the most beautiful people you've ever seen in your life. And as a 19-year-old gay kid who had just moved from Ohio and my mom dropped me off, I remember like opening the door and like seeing this kid eating cereal, cereal, and I was like, I've never seen someone, I've never seen a guy that beautiful before. And I just, he's like, Hey, you're the new guy, you're upstairs. And I was like, Okay, cool. And I just remember my head being like, I have arrived. This is it. This is I'm like, Christmas has come early. Um, and so I lived in this this house, and then I auditioned every day on the I'd take the train to New York City and audition. I on the train ride to New York City. I met an agent from innovative artists at the time named Josh Workman, who was great. He was like, You have a really cool look. Like, I mean, when I was 19, I had the biggest lips. Like, I looked like a twink from like Abercrombie and Vitch. And you look the same now as you did then by the way. Oh, stop it. These lips are fake. Um, and so the ridiculous. I wish it was a lie. Ridiculous. Um, and so the the uh so so he's like, you should go on auditions for us. And so I because I was living with a modeling manager, and then I got this agent from Innovator who was like, I want to send you on auditions. I was like, okay, that sounds great. And so I went into the office, signed a contract, and they started sending me on auditions. And one of the first auditions I got was All My Children, and I booked the role, and I booked it in hindsight. The casting director told me, because and this is where Jonathan's hyperactive brain comes into play. Uh, she was like, it was so cool when you were doing the scene, and she the the Bianca was doing the monologue, how you were just like giving her like all this shade and like we're over it, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, in my head, I'm like, oh no, that's just because I was bored because the reader was talking and it wasn't my turn to talk. So I just leaned up against the wall and like started looking around the room because I was bored, but it translated as oh, this guy's cool. Yeah, and I was like, Yeah, that's exactly what I was doing. Thank you. Thank you for noticing. Not true. Um, so I booked the show, and I remember, and I was out now, right? I had moved from I I knew I came out in college, knew I was gay.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Like, oh yeah, yeah, we skipped all that, but your parents know everybody knows.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yeah, everyone knows, right? We're all cool. Um, and I go to my so I go to Tiger Heat. Now, here's the crazy story: Daniel Francese from Mean Girls, Danny, who plays Damien, he was actually the guy that ran the list at Tiger Heat, which was an 18 and over gay club at 1987 in the East Village. Okay. And on Thursday nights, they did Tiger Heat. And that was 18 and over could come, and I was underage, so you could come and get a bracelet and an X on your hand so you wouldn't drink. But they played all the pop music that was currently out. And this was Britney InSync, Backstreet Boys, Christina. Like it was that era. So you're just out there. This club was so gay, they played the Britney Spears Pepsi commercial as a song to dance to. You you would be like the joy of collab or joy of Pepsi, whatever. Like we were dancing to it, and it was so fun. So uh I'm at this club and I'm dancing, and apparently, because I was 19 and I had moved to New York, and I was finally able to like live in a place where I was out and I could be gay. I was in New York City, I could be gay, everyone's gay here. It's great, and it was like for a few months I got to live that a fabulous life. And then one day at Tiger Heat, one of the assistants from publicity at All My Children happened to be there who was also gay dancing, and he reported to his boss that he saw me there. And I remember getting called into the publicity office for all my children. And I thought, this is it. I'm going on, I'm going on Regis and Kelly. This is it. I've got my biggest.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

You didn't even think it was gonna be something negative.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Uh-uh. I was like, oh my gosh, what are they gonna? Oh, I got I bet you I booked like Teen Vogue the cover. Like I was so excited. And I go in there, and there's a guy in a suit who is a publicist. I think his name was Mike, and there was a big ABC logo behind him. And I remember going in there and him sitting me down and going, You were at Tiger Heat last night. And I was like, Yeah, that was so fun. They played Britney. I was like, Have you ever gone? You should go. And he's like, You can't go there anymore. And I was like, Why? And he's like, Because you're our new heartthrob of the show. Like, you can't be gay. And I was like, Oh, okay. And it was a very pivotal dramatic, traumatic moment for me because you have to think about it. Authentically, since the time I was five years old, my parents knew I was gonna be an actor. The dream I've had since I was five years old is to be an actor and entertain people. I have now done it. I was 19 years old, I dropped out of college, and I booked a lead role on the biggest soap opera at the time. And you gotta remember, the cast was at the time I was there was Kelly Ripa, Mark Consuelo. I know the show. Yeah, it was big. Like it was that like that moment in time when all my children was like the bomb. And my job was to be the hot, young, new heart throb of the show. Okay, okay for the girls to fall in love with that are watching.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Okay. That was my job. Okay. And so I did it. I I my dream had come true. I booked a network show and I was working on a network show. I have made it. I did it. Your dream has come true. And if you want to quote Wicked, when the beginning of the second act, she says, Happy is what happens when all your dreams come true. Comma. And my dream had come true, but uh we're going to in order to keep this dream, you're going to have to lie to every single person you meet for the rest of your life. So much. Is what they basically told me. And when you're 19 years old and there's a guy in a suit and he's got an ABC logo behind him, what do you do? You you you your dream had been realized. I because it's the thing you've wanted your entire life, you will do anything to protect that. Of course. Because it's the thing I wanted more than anything. So of course, so I'm going to not be gay, quote unquote. They're going to give me a fake girlfriend.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Wait, they told they told you that right there. We're going to give you somebody.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

They didn't tell me I had to, but they insinuated it'd be really good if you and Liz went to the premiere of this thing you're going to on the red carpet together next week. It'd be really good if you guys went together. Yes, exactly. I'm Rock Hudson. Um, and so I went on the red carpet. I remember we had to do these like little like soap events. And Liz Hendrickson was my BFF in New York. She's a fabulous woman. She's so wonderful. She was the only person I had. Like she was it. And we were BFFs. She knew everything. And she's like, oh my, and like we just made it a game. We're like, yeah, all right, great. Let's go. And like, we'll never say we're dating. Like, we're never gonna. I I made a rule. I was like, yo, you yeah, we were like dancing in musicals every day in her house. Like we were BFFs. So it wasn't like it was one of those things where it's like we're both in on it, let's just have fun with it. And it's not like a girlfriend, we would just show up to things together, and people would insinuate insinuate. And by that, my job was done. Like I showed up with a girl and I held her hand on the carpet. We never kissed, we never did anything like that. We never, but like, we're not saying I'm not gay, I'm just showing up with the girl. You can deduct whatever you want to deduct from that, but like that was my save. And so we did that a few times, which made all my children happy, and that's kind of how it started. And then Mean Girls happens, and it blows in, you know, you think you're in the closet during all my children. Be Aaron Samuels, be the be the male lead in the heartthrob of a generation, New York Times top hundred movies of the century. Like be the male lead in that and see how that feels.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

But how did you keep yourself going when it felt like there was a huge when there was a huge part of you that you couldn't authentically be yourself?

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Well, let me be clear. When I was told that, and all my children, something major did shut down on me. So even though I kept going, I I kept going, but I wasn't myself anymore. Like I was myself in private rooms with people that I trusted, that people were that I was close with. I never lived a life like within my circle of friends and my close family, but I lived a lie with the in the public for sure. Um, so something huge did shut down on me. And what made what made me keep going is I don't know, but when I read Michael Cain's book, Acting and Film, when I read the opening uh paragraph to that, is when I realized, oh, it's because I wanted to be an actor and I wanted to work in movies and TV more than anything else in my life. And when and in his opening book, he says, if you really want to become an actor, but only providing that acting doesn't interfere with your golf game, your political ambitions, or your sex life, you don't really want to become an actor. Acting is more than a part-time job, it's more than a full-time job, it's a full-time obsession. And when I read that, I was like, Oh, yes, the reason I was able to keep going is because I never wanted anything else in my life since I was five years old. And because of that, I was willing to do anything and everything to make sure that happened.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

So if there's a queer kid listening to this, are you saying that if you find a focus? Because I would agree with you, my it was my focus and my drive that kept me going.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Yes, like what it is you want, and I wanted to do this. And if it meant that I'd have to hold Elizabeth's hand on a red carpet and mean that I would have to live in basically silence for the next 15 years, I thought I was gonna live like that forever. But then the world started changing. But it was like, it's okay, I can do it, and with that comes consequences, with living like that comes huge consequences. You start not knowing who you are, and then you start feeling bad. Like I remember going to sets and being so depressed when I would lap a film because I was at work where I had to put on the face because that's what they hired me for. I was never able to be my true self and really connect with the people that I worked with. And because of that, but they knew, no, they knew, they knew, but they I would say some knew, some didn't. And but at the end of the day, they all knew. Like, come on, let's be you've met me. Like, you can't you can't take the you can't take the musical musical theater kit out of Ohio.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

But let's be honest, there was a time back then when when willful ignorance, people didn't I've because I've said the same thing about myself. People would say they didn't know, and I'm like, come on, spend 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Willful ignorance, exactly. And I think with that, when I'd wrap a movie, I'd be so depressed because I was like, I never really got to connect with people the way I saw all the other straight actors becoming best buddies with the director or becoming like really close and going out to dinner, and I would always avoid all that stuff, even when I'm working with like the biggest legends in the world, like Mark Waters and all these like you know, all these crazy talented directors, I never connected with them the way I do now because I never let them see exactly who I was. So, how much how can you connect with someone when you don't know them? Do you ever have people in your life that you're like, I've known them for 20 years, but I don't really know them? Yes, because they don't let you in.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

That's how I was on set. And because of that, it never gave me the opportunity to actually connect and build like relationships with all these talented people I was working with.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Yeah. Well, here the first thought that comes to mind when you ask me that question is yes, but of course, because I work with famous people. And famous people, even if they're not queer, if they've been around long enough, they know how to keep you at an arm's length. Right? But then there are there aren't that many people in my life anymore that I feel like because I can't tolerate it. If I can't go if I can't go deep with you, then we're probably not gonna last. Like it's not gonna, but there was a time when you just you just couldn't. So this is not just about your story, Jonathan. Your story is so important, but I will tell you, as a father who has two teenage kids, both who identify as queer, my older one is a very dedicated lesbian. And here we're in 2025, and they live in California, and she feels afraid to authentically be herself. So that means there are a lot of people who are gonna listen to this who either have children or queer themselves, who are still in this day and age trying to figure out how to authentically move through life. So you did it.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Do you think that that helped you propel you forward to do that? Or do you was it a hindrance to have to do it that way? Because you did you get support when you finally started being yourself?

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Yeah, I got support. Yeah, again, like I said, the thing that I was scared of most, which is like, oh, your fans are gonna hate you. You're they're all gonna everyone's gonna run away for you. The opposite thing happened. I was flooded with support. I I was flooded with jobs, I was flooded with opportunities. So it's like the big fear that I had that like, oh no, once they once I publicly come out, the world's gonna disappear. Opposite. The world was literally technicolor. You could I I I have never worked more in the past six years than I did in the first 15 in Hollywood.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

So how like how old were you when you came out?

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Uh publicly, yeah. What's eight years ago?

SPEAKER_01 38:43

It was only eight years ago.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Because I feel I would say like the you you start to care less. Yeah, in the like, you know, in the first 15 years of my career, yes, I was I was in the closet, but then in those in those back last five of those 15, you just start to care less, and you're like, I don't care. Like, I'm not gonna publicly come out, but I'm not gonna like do the lie, I'm not gonna like, I'm gonna tell people on set, like I'm gonna just be myself. It starts to slowly build to that. And then I remember I posted a picture of me and my husband James and we were boyfriends, and I said, I love this guy, and with a heart, and it was like a cute picture of us, and or like, I love this man, and that was it. That's how I came out. One post, that's one post caught on like wildfire. Aaron Samuels is gay, blah, blah, blah. Which here's the funny part almost all of the guys from Mean Girls are gay. How funny is that? Oh, really? Daniel Friend says he's gay. I knew that. Uh Kevin Napoor, Rajiv, he's gay, I'm gay. Like all of them except Shane Omen came out, which I find hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Um, you know, do you remember when Ellen came out on her show where you Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. There was a point when that kind of thing happened and it was horrible and awful. And I grew up around that where people would get canceled, and then something flipped that doesn't correct it doesn't happen anymore. People don't get canceled anymore. Anymore for coming out with their sexuality. Would you agree?

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Um the question of the century. Um I used to say no. I used to say no. I used to say, I don't care. People can say all they want, that like coming out doesn't get you canceled in Hollywood, but secretly it does. I used to say that. Up until about the past two years. I think it changed again and that it did that it is okay. You think it got you canceled up until two years ago? I wouldn't say canceled.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Pigeonholed? Pigeonholed.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Yeah. I don't want to say canceled. Cancel is not the right word.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Do you feel pigeonholed right now?

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Yeah, and I love it.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

I I feel pigeonholed and I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Well, but you're just yourself.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Yeah, it's like, it's like but the reason I say pigeonholed up until two years ago is because, oh, then you can only play gear rolls. And then you I'll tell you who changed it.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Who?

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Gonna give them props. Jonathan Bailey.

unknown 41:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Jonathan Bailey, who is an outfabulous, beautiful gay man, was the lead in the biggest movie to come out in the past 10 years. And he was the male lead who was straight in the movie. He played a straight role in the movie. Then he went on to be the lead of one of the biggest franchises ever built, Jurassic Park. And we went and watched Jurassic Park the other night, and I go, Jonathan Bailey is an out gay actor. And not only is he the lead in Wicked, which is one of the biggest movies, he's now the lead of a franchise that is bigger than almost every franchise ever made. That showed me progress. It was that moment I was like, oh, times they are changing.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

I want to reflect something back to you because I saw a video the other day, just a random TikTok and a random woman who was like, who said, So are we just gonna, are we just cool with the fact that Jonathan Bailey's gay, right? Like we're we're just gonna ignore that. And all the women were like, yeah, of course, it doesn't matter. But I were I I thought in that moment, I the same thing. I was like, oh, that's interesting. But let me tell you what, brother, he could not have done that without people coming before him. So there's always a tipping point. He may have been that tipping point, but he stood on your shoulders and everybody else's shoulders who did that first. And I'm sure he would tell you the same thing. There are a lot of shoulders to stand on. You you really did, and you know, like I'm not one to blow smoke. I think you're tremendous, but I do think a lot about what you did to pave the way for queer people and for people. I can only imagine how many people's lives, maybe not physically, have been saved entirely. I'm sure a lot of people, but metaphorically, intellectually, mentally, spiritually, have been saved by watching you do that. And then every person gets to take it further. Every person gets to go a little bit further. But I don't think we're here in the same way without you having done that. Do you feel the weight of it? Does that even register for you? Or you're just so getting to be your authentic self that you don't think about it.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

I think it's a mix of both. Like, I think it's a mix of, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you when I realized I was actually making a difference is when I did the holiday sitter, which is the first uh gay-led rom-com for Christmas for Hallmark. And the first time I played gay and Hallmark on screen was in the Christmas house, and that's where we had the first same-sex kiss in a Christmas movie ever. Ever. Crazy.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

What year was that? Just give us the year so we end up. 2020. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

And when I realized I was doing something special, is when I stole a coat from wardrobe because they had it fitted to me so nicely. And so I was like, I think I'm keeping this. And so I took it home with me. I was like, we wrapped, I'm like, I think this is my coat now. And I told the wardrobe girl, I'm like, is this mine? She goes, I think that's yours. I was like, yeah, I think it's mine too. And so I took it home. And a couple months later, uh, they called, they said, Hey, we need that coat back. And I was like, What coat? I take a coat. And then someone above that person called a couple days later. We really need that coat back. And I was like, I didn't take the coat. And then finally, like, someone major from the network called, and they're like, We know you have the coat, you're not in trouble. We know they gave it to you. The Smithsonian wants to put this coat in their archives for the LGBT archives, and a picture of you and Brad Harter, who played your love interest, because this is the first same-sex kiss in a Christmas movie ever. And we want, they want to wow, like memorialize it. And so I found the coat miraculously. Um, and that's when I was like, oh, this is this is a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

That's huge. You must remember exactly where you were when that call came in.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

Yeah, I remember I was in Vegas. I remember exactly where I was, and I was like, I don't have the coat. You guys are crazy. Um, so but like at that moment, I realized like, oh, this is like real. And I remember when Christmas House aired, the amount of messages I got in my DMs on Facebook and Instagram. If you don't follow me, please follow me. Um it on online and the consensus of the consensus of the messaging that people were sending me was I am a gay person and I watch Hallmark movies every year with my family at Christmas. And for the first time ever, I got to see a love that looked like mine on screen while I sat next to my parents who are okay with me being gay, or maybe they're not okay, or maybe you know, it's still a touchy subject in our family. And they got to turn to their most trusted brand in the world for love, family, and relationships. The most wholesome, trusted brand in the world, Hallmark, that does that. And they got to see a wholesome, happy, healthy relationship between two men in a movie with a background and a backdrop that they're so used to watching and comfortable watching, that it actually made it comfortable for them to see that relationship. And those are the messages I got hundreds of, hundreds. And that's when I was like, oh, this works matter, this work matters. And so I doubled down. I'm like, oh, we're playing, we're we're telling queer stories. Let's go. And that's when I started playing, started the holiday sitter, which was like the first led rom-com between two guys. And you know, move that, and it's the first and only gay-led rom com rom com between two men at Hallmark. And that's when I realized my mission mattered. And then I, you know, I was lucky enough to receive the Equality California Visibility Award. And I got to receive the Human Rights Campaign Visibility Award because of all the queer because of all the queer storytelling that I've been able to do in the past five years, which is it, I mean, it's so nice to be recognized for these things, but like the fact that I have to be recognized for these things is annoying. But what are you gonna do? Be annoyed by it, or are you gonna say nope, let's double down and keep going? And so once I realized it wasn't important to me until I did the Christmas house. When I did the Christmas house, I don't want to say it wasn't important, it wasn't like something I thought I'd be doing. It was just kind of like, yeah, whatever, it'd be cool to be gay. But then when you see the impact, that's when I was like, all systems go, we're tripling down and we're gonna keep doing this.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

Well, I mean, I can tell you personally, you opened up my eyes to what it means to live my authentic life in a way that I hadn't understood before.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

From watching my acting?

SPEAKER_01 48:10

No, from knowing you personally.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Oh. Look, here, Chris, it's so funny you say this because you, you know, I've I've known you long enough, and I watch how you kind of deal with your sexuality and you deal with being authentically yourself and being out and proud because you have a lot of trauma that you're dealing with, right? And there's a lot of trauma that you're bringing with you that makes it hard for you to just do the Jonathan Bennett factor, which is like F them. Like, I just don't care. And I watched something on Instagram a few years ago, and it what it literally changed me even more. Um, it's as stupidest thing. You guys have all probably seen these, but it talks about what happens after you die. And it's like one of those voiceovers, like a robotic voiceover, and it's just showing images and like the robotic voiceover happens. And to sum it up, basically what it says is what happens after you die? Well, for the first few hours, your family will cry and they'll go to the funeral, and the people you love will cry. And then halfway through the punch and pie at your wake, they'll stop talking about you and they'll start talking about plans for the weekend. And then those conversations, and then a week after, you know, a few weeks after you die, all the accounts you had on this earth, all your social security number, everything you had, those will all be closed. A few months after you die, the people that were sad will start living again and going on. And 20 years, 10 to 10 to 20 years after you die, not a single person on this earth, beside a few family members that were young when you were here, will remember what you did or who you were at all. And it's like, so if that's the case, why do we give a shit what the other people think? Because this is it, this is your time. You have X amount of years. We can't even be promised tomorrow in this lifetime.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

So why do you give a flying F what other people think of you? Because when you're gone, nobody will talk about you anymore. Yeah, it's just the facts of life. Yeah, yeah. Maybe a couple relatives. Other than that, who gives a hell?

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Yeah, I totally agree. But when you do bring trauma with you, it takes a minute sometimes to unwind. It's interesting as an observation. We've never talked about your observation of my walking through life and my sexuality. Because I am really open.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

No, you are very open, but I know it, but not not you're very open now, not as open as when I first met you.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Yeah, really.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

Right? Not as open as when I first met you five years ago. Like totally different. Yeah, totally different. I can see the pro I can see the expansion.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Jonathan, that's a lot of that's you. I'm not gonna lie. No, no, I'm I'm being serious, but I not the not the professional Jonathan on the screen, the you who you are. Because I am a human being, probably like you. When I see someone embodying their authenticity, my instinct is to run towards my own authenticity.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Yes. Nothing is more attractive. There is nothing more attractive than a person that knows who the hell they are. Right. And whether you like them or not, and I don't mean this like when you watch Drag Race right now, there's all this like faux confidence, which makes me crazy. You know, you have this one who's like, I'm the best, I'm this. I'm like, I can see right through this, guys. You're you don't believe that. You're just trying to put on a front. You know, there's these fronts of people, I know exactly, but the people that really know who they are and they just do them, no matter what people think of them. That is the biggest superpower and the biggest thing that's attractive. Like, and I don't mean like sexually or physically attractive, it's just it's attractive to be around those people.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Um, because they know exactly who they are. And when you're around people like that, I have a handful of friends that are like that. Like, you feel so comfortable being in their presence. It's that mentality of like, whether no matter what it is that you want to be in your life, like, you know, if you're if you want to collect rocks and you're like really into rock collecting and you're afraid people think that's stupid, but you just own it and you want to talk about rocks all the time, I will sit with you and talk about rocks. Cool. Tell me about a stalagti. Like, I great. Like, no matter what it is, when you just really embrace who you are fully and don't give a flying hell what other people think, you become the person that people want to be around.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

When you're unapologetically yourself, and that's the word I was looking for. Unapologetically yourself, and that's who Jonathan is today. He is a guy that is unapologetically him because life is short, and sure, he's hyper and he's loud and he's obnoxious, and I do all these things, and some people won't get it, but the right people will. And when the right people get it, doors will open. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:13

You're you really listen, I could talk to you for hours, but I also want to be respectful of your time. And I feel like it's a good place to end what you've just talked about, what you saw on Instagram, what you've talked about about being unapologetically yourself. And it doesn't just have to be about queerness, Jonathan. I know we've talked a lot about that because that's just a piece of who you are. But if you were, if you had something to leave behind for people with this episode, I don't care if they're straight, queer, whatever it is, right? What would that be?

SPEAKER_00 53:42

What would you you're never too much and you're always enough by just being you. And that goes for every second of every moment of every day. If you only have 10 10% to give at the gym that day, that's all you got. If you can't return the emails because you just don't have it in you today, that's okay. Don't do it. You're enough without doing that. And if you think you know, being loud or funny or or or flamboyant or whatever it is that makes you you, if you think any of that is too much, it's not. It's exactly right. You're never too much, and you're always enough.

SPEAKER_01 54:24

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

I needed that too.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

You know, I love you.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

Love you. And I appreciate you. Okay, follow me on Instagram. Thanks everyone for listening. This has been Chris McNeely's podcast. I'm Jonathan Bennett signing off.

SPEAKER_01 54:37

Okay, we'll talk to you soon. Unsided.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

Unsided. Unsided.